Possible Order -- Various Concerns

I have been planning on ordering a loaded ES for months. Didn't want to order previously because I have a lease on a Subaru Forester until June. However, I believe it is not too early to order now due to the time delays and parts availability for the ES loaded. I've been reading posts here, the Yahoo Escape board, as well as Edmunds. It appears that the negativity has increased markedly lately. Yes, I know that is tempered by posts from those lucky happy (for now?) Tribute and Escape owners. I need to have my concerns addressed soon. (I am leaning toward purchasing a certified pre-owned Lexus RX-300. It would be about $7,000 more, so I'm weighing that option carefully. Long term reliability? Resale value? etc.)<br><br>I'm not terribly concerned about the five recalls (affected few vehicles, etc.) I'm more concerned about the litany of other apparently unaddressed recent complaints, including the following:<br><br>- Fuel odor<br>- Poor gas mileage<br>- Excessive wind noise<br>- Wipers, windshield washer failures<br>- Defroster failures<br>- Transmission problems<br>- Battery problems<br>- General concerns about poor design, assembly, quality control, cheap parts, etc.<br>- General concern about first year reliability, resale<br><br>Did I miss anything? Believe me, I still believe the Tribute is a terrific design and value. It clearly beats all of the other small car-based SUVs on the market. I just need to be convinced that I'm not making a mistake ordering the vehicle. I've sent an email to the dealer I'd likely buy from (S plan no less) asking them to address my concerns. I have not heard from them yet. I advised that dealer that the Escape/Tribute now seem to be developing a public perception as a risky proposition as a first year vehicle. I noted that I would still be interested in placing an order if they could assure me that Ford/Mazda were aware of these quality concerns and were aggressively addressing them.<br><br>Any thoughts?<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Don

D Niehaus,<br>I am a happy owner of a Mazda Tribute (have 4,300 miles on it.) However, there are some small concerns that I live with like other owners. I would suggest that if you have until June, 2001, that you look at the new Toyota Highlander when it is supposed to come out in February. It should be about $8,000 (I think)less then a Lexus RX-300, so it should be in your price range. The Highlander is supposed to be very similar to the Lexus RX-300 very much like the upscale Camry is like the Lexus. My brother had a Lexus and ended up trading it in for aa Avalon. I've owned 3 Toyota's recently (Celica, Camry, and Avalon), and have loved all 3. Extremely reliable. If I could have waited to purchase this vehicle, I would have purchased the Toyota Prius or the Toyota Highlander. My daughter needed a car this summer as she was moving to Texas, so I gave her my 8 year old Toyota Celica Convertible.<br>Marty

Don....this is a place for us all to vent concerns, communicate, etc...however I personally would NOT give my Tribute up for ANYTHING else...As a matter of fact I just gave it a 100% on a survey. It is well worth it....no reservations whatsoever!!! By the way...I have a neighbor with a 2000 camry and he has just gotten a recall notice for an entire rear suspension arm that may break off....ANY and ALL have recalls...its when you DON'T have recalls and have trannies etc. drop off that you gotta worry. Case in point HYUNDAI...<br><br>bob

Marty -- Thanks for your reply. I am aware of the soon-to-be-released Highlander. (It's nice we have so many choices, but it sure makes it hard to keep up/compare, etc.) As a matter of fact, I stopped by a Toyota dealer this past weekend to ask about the Highlander. They expect to get their first one in in mid to late January. Toyota has not officially released pricing yet. However, there best estimate is that the "limited" edition Highlander will MSRP out at about $34,000!!! So, if you're comparing that to a loaded 2001 RX 300, you're probably right. However, I am considering a 1999 RX300 at about $32,000. The base Highlander MAY be around $31-32,000. So, new Highlander or 2 year old RX 300? I don't want to wait too long before ordering a Trib (if I do, in fact, go that route, because I do need it before mid June. Who knows about these nagging production delays!<br><br>Also, I keep hoping that over the next few months, Ford and Mazda will solve some of these problems. Then, folks post new issues/concerns. Yikes.

Bob -- Thanks for your note. It's reassuring. (Actually some of your posts had contributed to my increasing uneasiness about placing an order.) I do hope to hear from the Mazda dealer. I agree that Ford/Mazda are being proactive with recall notices -- unlike other car companies. You mentioned Hyundai. How about Mitsubishi!! I also had previous problems with "silent" recalls from Honda. Was greatly inconvenienced by a breakdown which would have been averted had Honda sent out notices to their customers. I'll never buy another Honda. I'm still concerned about all of the other problems that folks have identified, particularly over the last two weeks. I do hope that the Ford/Mazda engineers are working hard to come up with fixes for units already in customers' hands as well as improvements to the design/production of future vehicles.

Believe it or not if you go to the Escape post you'll see where Ford is consulting with Mazda to get the answer. What is sick is it is a Ford engine!!! Granted the Duratec FYI is #1 in awards for Quality comparing it to Japanese, Domestic, and even european counterparts. My posts here are supposed to be informative as I do have an edge when it comes to getting things done with Mazda. My fuel smell is 99% gone...I think it is just not announced by Mazda as an official fix yet due to the holidays where Mazda simply won't be shipping parts from distribution AND they want to be 100% sure it will work. I have gone to Austrailian web sites, NOT ONE COMPLAINT ON THE FUEL SMELL??? HMMM THEY GET theirs from Japan?!!! Mazda does things different....I really mean that, superficially they are dealer wise a regular dealer....internally, philosophically they think different...just ask a Mazda owner of LONG STANDING. They know Mazda's quirks with trying to domesticate themselves....its is/has been very tough. Mazda for example has what they call "computer modem analysis" a supercomputer....specifically designed to simulate crash tests whereby shorten the duration from scale to production...BUT Ford actually wanted the computer for America....Mazda denied/declined. You may note....look up Mazda vehicles on fatalities....per capata THE fewest deaths per 1000 vehicles. True Miata is perfect, 626 very domestic but designed in Japan is perfect, Millenia perfect...mpv...consumer reports critics complained about bumper integrity so what did Mazda do....REPLACED EACH AND EVERY BUMPER...Protege another winner...Our worst performing product is the BSeries...in safety. <br><br>Most of all a quick story...redundant for a few who have read this before but I must repeat it. I 3 Xmas's ago was driving home in Xmas traffic on I75 and traffic abruptly stopped in front of us....we stopped....I peered into our rear view mirror and saw an RV pulling a Taurus wgn. moving in excess of 40mph...I punched the gas, swerved into the median, the RV followed, I not knowing this then hit the brakes....HE SLAMMED my family of 3 and our unbelted basset. It destroyed his 76 full size Winnebago and the TAurus was jack knifed behind. OUR 96 Mazda 626 stopped that sucker and we drove it home from S.C.....Granted I had bad whiplash and TMJ problems from the impact as well as other problems but NO INTRUSION into the passenger compartment, and best of all THE RV left on a hook and we drove. If that does not spell out what a Mazda is then consider I know for a fact Mazda pays out of warranty claims on a case by case basis for the original ower...say your transmission goes out with 65k and the vehicle is 3.5 years old...typically the factory will pick up the part and you pay the labor...Another thing is the constant "neat" factor...their pursuit is to have a few people LOVE their cars and unlike Toyota LOTS AND LOTS who LIKE their cars. I would NEVER loose a sale to a competition of comparable cost, only when someone went UPSCALE....never to a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc...just Lexus and a few others sometimes. I have conviction with Mazda because I know 'em inside and out...If anyone ever wants to know some "special" unadvertised safety features just ask...I know some that HAVE NEVER been told but work...Mazda is the best unknown car company in the world...<br><br>bob

A loaded ES will be in very high demand this summer. If you order it S plan you will not reduce your dealer's stock quota from the factory. See if your dealer will order it with a written understanding to you that they will sell it to someone else if you don't want it when it arrives. I am pretty sure they will readily agree. But by that time you will have the assurance you need and you will have your exact Tribute too.

Don,<br>In my recent experiences with Toyota dealers on a new product, they felt that they would not budge off of MSRP. I priced out the Toyota Solara Convertible and the Toyota Prius. The pricing and dealing were easy. Either pay MSRP or forget it!! I suspect that may (?) be the case for the Highlander initially. You may want to consider buying from dealer inventory in May either the Mazda or Highlander. My suggestion, however is to be sure to test drive the Highlander before you make your final decision. I do love my Tribute even with some minor faults, especially with this record snowfall that we are getting in Chicago. <br>Good Luck,<br>Marty

Bob -- Appreciate your strong endorsement for Mazda products. I have friends and family who also have had very positive experiences with Mazda products. A possible concern is that the Tribute is built for Mazda by Ford. You don't feel that that will compromise quality? You still feel confident that Mazda will back the Tribute as aggressively as products which they build themselves?<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Don

Marty -- You are absolutely right about aggressive pricing by Toyota dealers, especially for new introductions which are perceived to be "hot". I would expect a buyer to be "lucky" to be able to buy a Highlander at MSRP. Toyota dealers (at least in our area) are notorius for adding "additional dealer markup". So, although I'll probably look at the Highlander just to be complete, there is little possibility that I would buy any car at over MSRP.<br><br>Don